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19 Comments (11 conversations)
Jason
This write-up really did not sell me on Hagens.
“Are there concerns about Hagens? Sure. It’s not like his fall down public scouting lists happened for no reason. Some worry about his size and lack of physicality. Others criticize the quality of his shot. His biggest skeptics worry that he won’t be able to stick down the middle in the pro game.”
Oh boy! Where I can sign up?
rebusflyer
Who would you pick insty, given who Charlie is guessing will be a available at #6? Every one of them has questions marks.
guadzilla
Agreed!
John Starbuck
Charlie, your Hagens description sure sounds like a description of a former Flyer…Morgan Frost.
Jason
*shudder*
Jonathan Riendeau
HAGENS
Bob MCH
This is where DB has to study what Howie Roseman would do. I think it is pretty simple. DB needs to get either a 1-C or 1-D in this draft, which means he has to trade up in the first round from the 6th pick to the top 2. Championships are won with elite talent, not second tier talent. It appears that after the first two picks, the next tier, 3 through 10, are second line players, not first liners. Flyers are stacked with second and third line players and prospects. DB must concentrate on first line studs.
How does he do this? He takes his arsenal of draft picks and makes an offer the top two teams cannot refuse, to move from 6 to 1 or 2. He offers what it takes, perhaps the Flyers pick at 6, the Flyers Avalanche pick at 23, a second rounder, and a player of interest other than Michkov, perhaps Konecny, perhaps someone else. Has to do it.
DB and the Flyers have run the organization with the shotgun approach, draft midround, hope you get a star. Not gonna happen. Gotta be aggressive, identify the certain 1-C or 1-D, that special superstar prospect, and go get him. Schaefer and Misa are the two targets. DB has to trade up to land one of them. He has the ammo. Do it DB, get the superstars in here to compliment MM. Look, if MM had a 1-C this year, he probably would have walked away with the Calder, probably could have cashed in with 85 points or so, 35 goals. Get ‘er done Danny.
Charlie O'Connor
AuthorHey, I guess you can’t rule out a trade up to No. 1/2 entirely. But it’s very unrealistic to expect it based on post-salary cap NHL history. Certainly it’s unlikely enough that it would be foolish to get mad at Briere if he can’t pull such a move off. The NHL isn’t the NFL. Studying Howie Roseman isn’t going to help here.
Bob MCH
You know what Charlie, you are right, let’s not put this expectation on DB. He should not have pressure to acquire a 1-C to play with MM for the next decade. Just land 7 second and third liners in this coming draft and call it a success. Poor guy should not be expected to get a 1-C any time soon. While a great GM knows deals can be made for the right price, if a GM is willing to part with the right package, even offering too much for a 1-C if necessary, is probably just expecting too much from a Flyers GM. Maybe they can win a Cup with all second and third liners, with just one first liner in MM. Yeah, let’s not try to trade up for Misa. We might have to part with a few pearls, and a few precious late first round picks. Shouldn’t do that. Silly me.
Charlie O'Connor
AuthorI mean, he can try. But there’s a reason why top-two picks are essentially never traded. It’s not because every GM is an idiot and can’t get deals done. It’s because it’s nearly impossible. The teams that have the picks won’t trade them. You can’t put a gun to their heads and make them do it.
Bob MCH
I get your point, however here is the situation, and therefore the opportunity: 1) Trades of top two picks can happen. They are allowed. 2) If Schaefer is taken first, which you project in this article, then San Jose with the second pick is in line to get Misa, a 1-C. 3) Hence the development for a unique trade up opportunity, because San Jose already has a 1-C, a budding superstar at the position, Celebrini, and they have depth, Smith. 4) Therefore, ergo, the Flyers have a chance to offer them a trade they cannot refuse for Misa. Trading Misa, does not erase San Jose’s need for a 1-C, because they already have one. So, DB has a unique opportunity to overpay in a trade with San Jose, to get that critical 1-C Flyers have to find. Until they land a 1-C, this rebuild is not happening. It has to start with 1-C, 1-D, and 1-G. Now is the time to go get that 1-C, to overpay San Jose, whatever it takes, as as long as MM remains a Flyer. Offer them Pick 6 where a strong wing could be available to play beside Celebrini, plus a couple more number 1’s from their arsenal, and a bunch of decent prospects, whatever it takes, Konecny, Foerster, Tippett, Luchenko, some combination of picks and players that makes San Jose say, sure, why not, let’s do this trade with DB. Look, How are the Flyers ever going to get a 1-C, 1-D, and 1-G? Right now is an opportunity to be aggressive and get that 1-C, not some 2-C they hope grows into a 1-C, but a stone cold stud for 1-C that is young and can drive play for MM for the next decade, and score, a leader, a stud. That’s when this rebuild will turn the corner. Adding more second and third liners does not move the needle, not to win a Cup. To be a playoff team, sure, but not a Cup. A 1-C is likely not coming in Free Agency. In a trade? Maybe, but why not go for broke now, and get Misa? Gotta try. There is logic to this possibility.
guadzilla
No GM is going to trade out of the top 2-4 slot and draft a player in the next tier for a bunch of picks at 20-30. “Putting pressure on DB to make it happen” isnt sufficient grounds.
jpuleo
I would take a swing on Brady Martin’s offensive upside. He seems like the kind of player you need down the middle for the playoffs.
Bob MCH
BTW, Great article Charlie. Enjoyed your projections and evaluations.
rts88
Imagine if the Flyers legitimately tanked and didn’t get in the top 5. This is one of the reasons that I am against tanking in the first place. Some of the other mock drafts have Frondell coming here.
Michael Perez
If hagens is at six I likely go there, but if not I take the big shot on McQueen provided the medicals aren’t too terrifying.
guadzilla
I am in the McQueen corner, provided his medical checks out. They dont need to draft a player with a respectable floor – they have lots of middle 6 talent on the team already.
Go for the player with the highest ceiling. Getting another Morgan Frost or a 50-55pt 2C isnt moving the needle much- you can always get a veteran C for that in free agency or via trade. Get someone who has a shot at being a PPG player. McQueen is that player, if the draft writeups are anything to go by.
superunoriginal
As it stands, it’s pretty clear-cut between three guys unless DB jumps the shark.
1) Hagens (higher upside, faster, smaller)
2) Caleb Desnoyers (solid two-way–I figure he’s gone at 5).
3) Frondell (my guess as to who falls)
I feel like any of these guys would be better than Couturier.
Flyers fell about as far as they could (records/standings-wise). Lottery fate was just cruel. I’d like to see them try to get Jack Nesbitt as well. Need some luck with rolling the dice on those other first and second rounders in the draft. Hoping Flahr can work some magic.
Eli Shaika
Some more recent mocks are having both O’Brien and Desnoyers bouncing up around the top 5. If Hagans slips to the Flyers, I have no problem with them picking him. He’s Far from my favorite prospect, but he ads skill to the lineup, no matter where he plays. Depending on what they do with those other picks (making a hockey trade on draft day, packaging them to move up, etc) I still think the home run swing with McQueen is the way to go….pending his medicals come out ok. You’re waiting a couple years for all of these guys. Even if he needs a bit more time to get healthier and stronger, his upside at max is more than Hagans, IMO.