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Perhaps this Philadelphia Flyers team, against all odds, is a special one

Charlie O'Connor
Charlie O'Connor
January 19, 2024
Perhaps this Philadelphia Flyers team, against all odds, is a special one
Jan 18, 2024; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA; Philadelphia Flyers right wing Owen Tippett (74) celebrates win with teammates against the Dallas Stars at Wells Fargo Center. Mandatory Credit: Eric Hartline-USA TODAY Sports

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Charlie O'Connor

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7 Comments (5 conversations)

Michael Perez

Michael Perez

January 19, 2024

after I got home from rink and watched the post game pod, I started thinking about the talent question. Do we actually have it and/ is it required to be a contender? The first part is easy, no we don’t have elite talent, we have a bunch of very good players. The second part is a bit murkier. If u just look at who won the past 4 years, Vgk, Avs, tb, they all had at least one of not more elite talents. Really the only outlier in past 10 years might be Stl, but that team had prime tarasenko, selke level O’Reilly and Norris caliber Pietro. So to win it, yes you need it. But to be a contender do you need it? breaking down teams that generally are seen as contenders, there are a few that might not exactly have that elite talent, but are a collection of very very good talent. One example is the team we played last night. Hintz is very very good, not sure if he’s elite; same with heiskenen and Robertson. Oettinger might be elite eventually, but perhaps not there yet. Winnipeg has an elite Goalie, but scheifle is a very good 1c, but not elite, is kyle connor any better than Tk? Carolina is probably another good example. Aho is a very good player, but again, elite? Probably not quite. Svech has the ability to take over games, but can’t stay healthy and has never really hit that upside yet. They have players that were once elite, kind of like the stars with benn sequin, in Burns, but otherwise they are a collection of very good players that are generally well coached.

I guess my conclusion is that the Flyers don’t have the talent to win, but there is no reason this handful of very good players shouldn’t at least have this moment where we say they are contenders.

With all that said, I have a measure for when I’m willing to say I think we will make the playoffs, and we aren’t there quite yet.

Thanks for what you do.

Michael Perez Replying to Michael Perez
Charlie O'Connor

Charlie O'Connor

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January 19, 2024

I think Robertson (109 points last year) and Heiskanen (Norris-quality No. 1 D-man) absolutely do qualify as elite guys, FWIW. Carolina is a much better argument, though I do think Aho is better than both Konecny and Couturier right now.

Charlie O'Connor Replying to Charlie O'Connor
Michael Perez

Michael Perez

January 19, 2024

I wonder if Robertson last year was the outlier and this is the real player, still very good, but not elite. I know Heiskenan is supposed to be Norris caliber, but not sure he really is. I’ll defer to you because you are smarter about hockey than I am. I definitely agree, that they are closer to having elite level talent than us or canes and also they are very very stacked with very very good players. when your second level is Duchesne, Benn and Seguin, ouch.

Funny thing with Aho, looking at this year after i made the post, he very well may deserve an elite tag by years end. But either way canes have been a team approach team for this past few years of excellence and probably why they haven’t gotten over the hump.

While I know LA fading right now which is why I didn’t mentioned them in first comment, but Kopitar and doughty no longer elite. Up until this swoon most people saw then as contenders. They are a team built on depth, especially up the middle. Byfield maybe someday, Clarke maybe, Kaliyev likely not. Best winger is Fiala who is a rich man’s Farabee at this point. But, that might be me patting myself on back for trading Fiala for farabee and a first round pick in my dynasty league at the start of 22-23 season.

Finally, you don’t need to tell us what it is, but do you have a benchmark or point on time in mind for when you are willing to say you think the Flyers are a playoff team?

Thank you for the response it is always appreciated.

MarioD

MarioD

January 19, 2024

As one of the folks who for years has said guys like Sanheim/Frost/Farabee were being underrated and miscoached, and a proponent of winning with a balanced four line attack, this just raises a lot of questions.

1) “Are they going to try to improve at the trade deadline?” being the primary question that they have less than 50 days to decide.

2) “Are they going to try to win games or develop players going forward” is the second question. Because even if you believe that Bobby Brink needs days out of the lineup as part of his development, playing Deslauriers or Hathaway or Poehling instead of him is not the best lineup they can put on the ice on a given night.

3) “Did they misevaluate their own roster and throw away points early in the season when the primary focus was the rebuild?”

Michael Perez

Michael Perez

January 19, 2024

1. if improve means sell assets for win now players, I think that’s a hard no. If that means moving Walker for a player under team control that can help now and in future, I think that is definitely possible.

2. Both, But Brink only deserves ice over 44 now and personally, I think Bobby needs to start getting ready for the calder cup run. Send him down until we at least move a dman and go back 12/6, but I don’t think bobby finishing season at AHL a bad thing. Poehling is a young team controlled talent worth developing btw. Hathaway necessary to keep teams honest and is a better way to do that then 44 is.

3. Who cares. But I think no. this whole thing all season had been about developing talent. Nothings changed except some of that talent is developing.

Mark

Mark

January 19, 2024

I haven’t always agreed or appreciated everything they have done or said (mostly Torts), but I have to give the Flyers’ leadership credit. It looks like they have a clear plan and know what they’re doing. Is there luck involved? Sure. But the thought process behind their decisions seems solid. And they were due some good luck after the last decade.

Bradford Boston

Bradford Boston

January 19, 2024

I think we are seeing their talent really develop under this management along with a strong commitment to playing as a team. The Flyers young talent is developing. As you and Matz pointed out on your podcast, a number of Tampa’s star players are not first round draft choices. They had to develop (Kucherov and Point along with Tyler Johnson were the Triplets) just as some of the Flyers players (Tippet, Farabee, Sanheim, York, Zamula) are now. Drysdale now has a chance to develop in a better environment than Anaheim as does Poehling. I’d much rather be in the Flyers position than say Toronto. Toronto has a number of high talent players that aren’t committed to playing 200 feet. They have really good offensive skill but are not hard to play against. It’s funny the Toronto writers in the Athletic always moan about goal tending and d-men but if you watch their games their high end forwards are awful at defense. One with a new contract consistently glides back on defense. Watch many of their goals against and the other team is skating around in their zone without getting touched. John Scott after their loss to Florida last year pointed out that he didn’t think their high end players knew how to make a body check (and at least one goes out of his way to avoid contact). The financial makeup of their roster is a total disaster making it really hard to build a deep team needed for the playoffs. So you can have high end skill but not really be a contender if you aren’t committed to playing defense and don’t have depth. Even Tampa, with all their high end skill couldn’t make it until they shook things up and brought in the depth and focus on a 200 foot game necessary to win in the playoffs. And it was a Tortorella team that shocked them into making those changes. So if the Flyers young players keep developing as they have this year they are way closer than we all thought at the start of the year.

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